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	<title>Comments on: Between Reviews: Forget what it means&#8230; Just see what it is</title>
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	<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/</link>
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		<title>By: n</title>
		<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-7923</link>
		<dc:creator>n</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Nov 2008 05:46:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/?p=210#comment-7923</guid>
		<description>i think this is boring movie</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i think this is boring movie</p>
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		<title>By: huh</title>
		<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-4842</link>
		<dc:creator>huh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 04:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think what Vijay saying is here not about film appreciation per se. The crowd reading up ebert, rangan et al and pretending they understood it :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think what Vijay saying is here not about film appreciation per se. The crowd reading up ebert, rangan et al and pretending they understood it <img src='http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: brangan</title>
		<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-4834</link>
		<dc:creator>brangan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 07:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/?p=210#comment-4834</guid>
		<description>Vijay: I&#039;m not goiing to argue, but just one point about &quot;Taxi driver talks about American issues like urban decay, loneliness, post-war depression and so on.&quot; Even if you don&#039;t know about any of that, it&#039;s still possible to enjoy the film as a loner&#039;s odyssey. One man&#039;s story. That&#039;s as universal as it gets. And beyond that, there&#039;s the filmmaking. At least IMO, you don&#039;t appreciate foreign films -- both films made in foreign countries and films that are &quot;foreign&quot; to you in every way -- because you understand/identify everything that goes on in them. The best such films work because there&#039;s something universal in them. This again goes back to the whole &quot;you take from a film what you want to take or see, not what the filmmaker wants you to take or see&quot; aspect. But I&#039;ll shut up now :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Vijay: I&#8217;m not goiing to argue, but just one point about &#8220;Taxi driver talks about American issues like urban decay, loneliness, post-war depression and so on.&#8221; Even if you don&#8217;t know about any of that, it&#8217;s still possible to enjoy the film as a loner&#8217;s odyssey. One man&#8217;s story. That&#8217;s as universal as it gets. And beyond that, there&#8217;s the filmmaking. At least IMO, you don&#8217;t appreciate foreign films &#8212; both films made in foreign countries and films that are &#8220;foreign&#8221; to you in every way &#8212; because you understand/identify everything that goes on in them. The best such films work because there&#8217;s something universal in them. This again goes back to the whole &#8220;you take from a film what you want to take or see, not what the filmmaker wants you to take or see&#8221; aspect. But I&#8217;ll shut up now <img src='http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Vijay</title>
		<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-4826</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/?p=210#comment-4826</guid>
		<description>&quot;I think we’re fed with only mainstream cinema is one possible reason for this reaction, and that has greatly reduced our responsiveness to anything that sets out to challenge our “comfort-zone”.&quot;

I have watched and lked some really offbeat films and films that move as slow if not slower than 2001. So attention deficit or not being able to appreciate offbeat stuff is certainly not the reason for disliking 2001. Comments like yours are examples of classic snobbery that exist in reviewer circles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I think we’re fed with only mainstream cinema is one possible reason for this reaction, and that has greatly reduced our responsiveness to anything that sets out to challenge our “comfort-zone”.&#8221;</p>
<p>I have watched and lked some really offbeat films and films that move as slow if not slower than 2001. So attention deficit or not being able to appreciate offbeat stuff is certainly not the reason for disliking 2001. Comments like yours are examples of classic snobbery that exist in reviewer circles.</p>
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		<title>By: Vijay</title>
		<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-4825</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:45:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/?p=210#comment-4825</guid>
		<description>&quot;but I don’t see what being “desi” has got to do with enjoying this or Taxi Driver (as you mentioned in my Guru review) or Jethro Tull (as you mentioned in that post) or anything else. There are a lot of tastes that could be “acquired” as you put it — Carnatic music, to name a “desi” art form. I doubt that anyone used to, say, light music, can summon up the patience to sit through a half-hour raga elaboration in a concert, but there are those who’ve acquired that taste — either by learning or through prolonged exposure to the art form — and that’s not to be discounted. Art isn’t always about what you “naturally” enjoy. Sometimes — if you’re willing to make the effort (and I fully understand if you don’t) — it’s also about “acquiring” a taste, and being “desi” has nothing to do with it.&quot;

Tastes are acquired, you are not born automatically with an inclination to listen to Ilayaraja and watch Mani Rathnam&#039;s films. I understand that and I am not addressing that.

I am talking about  a slightly different phenomenon. That of desi behavior when it comes to Hollywood films or distinctly alien music/films/art.And the snobbery and hypocrisy I witness. I honestly believe that you cannot beat yourself up into liking a film. You might be able to appreciate a few things when pointed out and might have an academic interest. But holding it close to your heart?

Its like..
&quot;I didnt like that song at all despite giving it  a try few times, but after someone pointed out the chord progressions and the underlying raga usage suddenly the song seems melodious and great &quot; :-))

Taxi driver talks about American issues like urban decay, loneliness, post-war depression and so on. I dont necessarily expect every desi, to identify with and empathize with or even understand De Niro&#039;s character in that film. And that directly affects the impact the movie has on you. I become less engaged(I&#039;ll avoid using entertained) with the proceedings. 
There might be better examples to illustrate how cultural divide/language barrier affects movie appreciation but maybe later. It might not be easy for an American movie critic, who might have watched a lot of Tamil films and might even know the Tamil language very well(without the help of captions) to instantly appreciate and identify with Bharathiraja&#039;s characters and his films like Mudhal mariyaadhai or 16 vayadhinile. Films that are firmly rooted in our culture and some of which might seem silly to them or even unfathomable.

To a certain extent every desi has the same handicap too while attempting to watch and analyse Hollywood films or other World cinema.
But nevertheless, they read up stuff on the net, read Ebert&#039;s reviews and act  like as if they got everything about the movie and that they talk in a tone like as if were mentally conditioned to naturally appreciate those kind of movies. I was only ridiculing that.

To me, there are a lot more engaging ways that I could stimulate myself to think about life, evolution, universe and so on than watching 2001 space odyssey. It is as simple as that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;but I don’t see what being “desi” has got to do with enjoying this or Taxi Driver (as you mentioned in my Guru review) or Jethro Tull (as you mentioned in that post) or anything else. There are a lot of tastes that could be “acquired” as you put it — Carnatic music, to name a “desi” art form. I doubt that anyone used to, say, light music, can summon up the patience to sit through a half-hour raga elaboration in a concert, but there are those who’ve acquired that taste — either by learning or through prolonged exposure to the art form — and that’s not to be discounted. Art isn’t always about what you “naturally” enjoy. Sometimes — if you’re willing to make the effort (and I fully understand if you don’t) — it’s also about “acquiring” a taste, and being “desi” has nothing to do with it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Tastes are acquired, you are not born automatically with an inclination to listen to Ilayaraja and watch Mani Rathnam&#8217;s films. I understand that and I am not addressing that.</p>
<p>I am talking about  a slightly different phenomenon. That of desi behavior when it comes to Hollywood films or distinctly alien music/films/art.And the snobbery and hypocrisy I witness. I honestly believe that you cannot beat yourself up into liking a film. You might be able to appreciate a few things when pointed out and might have an academic interest. But holding it close to your heart?</p>
<p>Its like..<br />
&#8220;I didnt like that song at all despite giving it  a try few times, but after someone pointed out the chord progressions and the underlying raga usage suddenly the song seems melodious and great &#8221; <img src='http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>Taxi driver talks about American issues like urban decay, loneliness, post-war depression and so on. I dont necessarily expect every desi, to identify with and empathize with or even understand De Niro&#8217;s character in that film. And that directly affects the impact the movie has on you. I become less engaged(I&#8217;ll avoid using entertained) with the proceedings.<br />
There might be better examples to illustrate how cultural divide/language barrier affects movie appreciation but maybe later. It might not be easy for an American movie critic, who might have watched a lot of Tamil films and might even know the Tamil language very well(without the help of captions) to instantly appreciate and identify with Bharathiraja&#8217;s characters and his films like Mudhal mariyaadhai or 16 vayadhinile. Films that are firmly rooted in our culture and some of which might seem silly to them or even unfathomable.</p>
<p>To a certain extent every desi has the same handicap too while attempting to watch and analyse Hollywood films or other World cinema.<br />
But nevertheless, they read up stuff on the net, read Ebert&#8217;s reviews and act  like as if they got everything about the movie and that they talk in a tone like as if were mentally conditioned to naturally appreciate those kind of movies. I was only ridiculing that.</p>
<p>To me, there are a lot more engaging ways that I could stimulate myself to think about life, evolution, universe and so on than watching 2001 space odyssey. It is as simple as that.</p>
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		<title>By: Vijay</title>
		<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-4824</link>
		<dc:creator>Vijay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:20:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/?p=210#comment-4824</guid>
		<description>Some Late responses:

&quot;But I wonder, how many of your tastes are NOT acquired ones?
Reviewers recommend movies, friends recommend movies/books/music, even when you buy something on the shelf, you read the one-line-praises about it which are printed on the cover… Acquired taste is nothing to be frowned upon, if you do not happen to like *everything* that is recommended to you&quot;

Chaitanya, by acquired taste I mean what Raghav suggested earlier. Beating yourself up for not being able to like something that a few others praise and trying to watch it or listen to it repeatedly in order to be able to like it. No, I dont have any such acquired taste like that. I think some of it is just hypocrisy and snobbery, in order to join the club that likes those films and think they are superior because of it. Believe me I have seen this happen atleast in desi circles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some Late responses:</p>
<p>&#8220;But I wonder, how many of your tastes are NOT acquired ones?<br />
Reviewers recommend movies, friends recommend movies/books/music, even when you buy something on the shelf, you read the one-line-praises about it which are printed on the cover… Acquired taste is nothing to be frowned upon, if you do not happen to like *everything* that is recommended to you&#8221;</p>
<p>Chaitanya, by acquired taste I mean what Raghav suggested earlier. Beating yourself up for not being able to like something that a few others praise and trying to watch it or listen to it repeatedly in order to be able to like it. No, I dont have any such acquired taste like that. I think some of it is just hypocrisy and snobbery, in order to join the club that likes those films and think they are superior because of it. Believe me I have seen this happen atleast in desi circles.</p>
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		<title>By: Suchi</title>
		<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-4775</link>
		<dc:creator>Suchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Apr 2008 03:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/?p=210#comment-4775</guid>
		<description>Baradwaj, the Melborne theatre I saw it at is having a special screening for the 40th anniversary. They&#039;ve put up the original paper ad and the youtube trailer on their website: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.astor-theatre.com/calendar/reviews/reviewsT/2001.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Astor Theatre&quot;: 2001&lt;/a&gt;

Did I mention they always run old trailers before they show the movie?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Baradwaj, the Melborne theatre I saw it at is having a special screening for the 40th anniversary. They&#8217;ve put up the original paper ad and the youtube trailer on their website: <a href="http://www.astor-theatre.com/calendar/reviews/reviewsT/2001.html" rel="nofollow">Astor Theatre&#8221;: 2001</a></p>
<p>Did I mention they always run old trailers before they show the movie?</p>
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		<title>By: Sagarika</title>
		<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-4769</link>
		<dc:creator>Sagarika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 05:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/?p=210#comment-4769</guid>
		<description>brangan: No this does *not* read like an obit. It does read like what it was intended to be. I guess the point I was trying to (but perhaps didn&#039;t) drive home was its coincidence with Clarke&#039;s passing away, in a sort of inadvertent nod to the book he wrote (and the script he co-wrote with Kubrick). That&#039;s all. I do admit that my drawing a direct parallel to the &quot;Musings&quot; piece is an apples to oranges comparison -- I take it back. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>brangan: No this does *not* read like an obit. It does read like what it was intended to be. I guess the point I was trying to (but perhaps didn&#8217;t) drive home was its coincidence with Clarke&#8217;s passing away, in a sort of inadvertent nod to the book he wrote (and the script he co-wrote with Kubrick). That&#8217;s all. I do admit that my drawing a direct parallel to the &#8220;Musings&#8221; piece is an apples to oranges comparison &#8212; I take it back. <img src='http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: brangan</title>
		<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-4768</link>
		<dc:creator>brangan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Apr 2008 04:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/?p=210#comment-4768</guid>
		<description>huh: ADD is definitely a factor when it comes to our appreciating these films. Heck, even our on art films we don&#039;t have much patience for. 
 
Sagarika: This reads like an obit (disguised or otherwise)? I intended it more along the lines of a &quot;2001 turns 40&quot; kinda thing. That&#039;s what triggered this piece.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>huh: ADD is definitely a factor when it comes to our appreciating these films. Heck, even our on art films we don&#8217;t have much patience for. </p>
<p>Sagarika: This reads like an obit (disguised or otherwise)? I intended it more along the lines of a &#8220;2001 turns 40&#8243; kinda thing. That&#8217;s what triggered this piece.</p>
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		<title>By: Sagarika</title>
		<link>http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/2008/04/19/between-reviews-forget-what-it-means-just-see-what-it-is/comment-page-1/#comment-4767</link>
		<dc:creator>Sagarika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Apr 2008 18:30:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/?p=210#comment-4767</guid>
		<description>brangan: I&#039;m convinced that you and the folks at NYT have some kind of psychic (or should we stick to the context and stay extra-terrestrial?)correspondence. :-) Remember their simultaneous medium musing? And now this &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/books/19clarke.html?ex=1221537600&amp;en=acd0646df1d45b60&amp;ei=5087&amp;excamp=GGHE2001author&amp;WT.srch=1&amp;WT.mc_ev=click&amp;WT.mc_id=HE-S-E-GG-NA-CT-2001_author&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Arthur C. Clarke obit&lt;/a&gt;...Looks like the co-creator of 2001: A Space Odyssey passed away last month at 90.  And here we have &lt;i&gt;your&lt;/i&gt; obit to the father of Science-fiction-as-we-know-it, under the guise of a birthday celebration: &quot;2001, by the way, just turned 40...so now’s as good a time to talk about it as any&quot;...Wow. If this isn&#039;t uncanny, what is? :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>brangan: I&#8217;m convinced that you and the folks at NYT have some kind of psychic (or should we stick to the context and stay extra-terrestrial?)correspondence. <img src='http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Remember their simultaneous medium musing? And now this <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/19/books/19clarke.html?ex=1221537600&amp;en=acd0646df1d45b60&amp;ei=5087&amp;excamp=GGHE2001author&amp;WT.srch=1&amp;WT.mc_ev=click&amp;WT.mc_id=HE-S-E-GG-NA-CT-2001_author" rel="nofollow">Arthur C. Clarke obit</a>&#8230;Looks like the co-creator of 2001: A Space Odyssey passed away last month at 90.  And here we have <i>your</i> obit to the father of Science-fiction-as-we-know-it, under the guise of a birthday celebration: &#8220;2001, by the way, just turned 40&#8230;so now’s as good a time to talk about it as any&#8221;&#8230;Wow. If this isn&#8217;t uncanny, what is? <img src='http://www.desipundit.com/baradwajrangan/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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