Between Reviews: Journey to the Centre of the Film
JOURNEY TO THE CENTRE OF THE FILM
AUG 31, 2008 - THE SILVER SCREEN WAS, QUITE LITERALLY, a silver screen one Tuesday at Chennai’s Sathyam Cinemas, where a bunch of writers had gathered for an arduous morning of work – to experience the magic of Digital 3-D (in RDX) in Journey to the Center of the Earth. The film, we were informed, would be projected on a specially imported silver screen, and the technology would be “more immersive” than the earlier (which is to say, non-digital) versions of 3-D. I guess that meant what I was going to see here would be bigger and better than My Dear Kuttichathan (which I watched in this same theatre complex) and Shiva Ka Insaaf (which was screened at the now-defunct Alankar theatre). There’s nothing like a little 3-D to cut through the callous armours of cynicism that the years have deposited on you, like a second skin. A magnetic rock wobbles in the space between you and the giant white screen, or a carnivorous plant snaps its jaws shut in the vicinity of an outstretched arm – and you’re reduced to a ridiculously contented infant, gurgling with pleasure.
And yet, large portions of Journey to the Centre of the Earth don’t do nearly enough to stoke your inner child. There’s possibly a case to be made that when you slip on those special glasses, you want to experience exactly the sort of film where a bug waves its feelers or a man gargles and spits in the direction of the camera for no other reason than to give you that they’re-doing-it-to-me kick. A more sophisticated or cerebral film would probably be pointless, because what you want isn’t so much the kind of writing that’s a shoo-in for a screenplay Oscar as a plot that will allow for deliriously riotous lines such as, “Magnesium is kind of flammable, isn’t it Professor?” Even so, as the tedious, been-there-done-that faux-Indiana Jones adventures unfold, your adult self asserts itself with much groaning and eye-rolling – and not the good kind of groaning and eye-rolling. The technology is surely a marvel, but you wish it had been put in service of a better director (imagine what a wizard at using cinema space like Quentin Tarantino or Steven Spielberg could do), who had at his disposal a better written screenplay.
For that’s the centre of a film – the writing. As we’ve heard so often, good writing needn’t automatically lead to a good movie (because there are so many intermediate processes that could wreck the spirit of the writing), but bad writing always leads to a bad movie. When we read of great writing in the movies, we typically hear of instances like Robert Towne’s uncredited script polish on The Godfather that resulted in the extraordinary scene between the Don and Michael in the tomato garden, where the conversation meanders beautifully to include vignettes about, among other things, Michael’s son already being clever enough to read the “funny papers.” But what about our films, where we don’t usually have the patience for circumlocution, where wordiness is typically equated with bad movie sense, where the show-don’t-tell principle is taken to a ridiculous extreme? At least the way I look at it and experience it – which means, this isn’t a golden rule, just my definition – good writing is when there’s a sense of inevitability in the film, but not in the individual scenes.
When I leave the film, I want to get a sense of there’s-no-other-way-it-could-have-unfolded, and thus every element should have snapped neatly into place in the service of an overall vision, but at the same time, I still want to be surprised by how this inevitability comes across, and hence, I want the scenes to unfold in a way that’s surprising (that is, not inevitable). One of the reasons I enjoyed Jaane Tu Ya Jaane Na and Bachna Ae Haseeno is because they do this – there’s nothing in them you couldn’t predict (which is why they’re the equivalent of comfort food), and yet, within their inevitable trajectories, there’s a whole lot of unpredictability. Jaane Tu, for instance, has that clever conceit of a masked man on a horse, which I totally didn’t see coming, and which, better still, I totally didn’t anticipate being used to such hilarious effect in the climax. And in Bachna Ae Haseeno, there’s that chain of events that results in Ranbir Kapoor becoming Bipasha Basu’s errand boy.
Bad writing – in my book – would be if she simply took one look at this man who ruined her life and decided, on the spot, to humiliate him in this manner. That’s a screenplay of convenience, where things happen just because they’re needed to move the plot along. What I enjoyed about the way this development is brought across is the fact that the film anticipates it: (a) In a fit of wrath, Bipasha fires the personal assistant who forgot to put a bottle of Evian in her dressing room, and thus (b) she ends up in Capri without an assistant, when (c) Ranbir follows her there and asks her to forgive him, and that’s when (d) she learns that the headhunter still hasn’t found a replacement, which is why (e) she decides to make Ranbir her assistant, thus instantly obtaining replacement plus revenge. This is a very, very small aspect of the overall film, but it reassures you that someone was thinking about the details.
Of course, it would have been another story altogether if the film had only these details and fell apart in terms of its superstructure – but even then, I’d have come away respecting the film, if not wholeheartedly falling for it. It’s rare to find truly great screenplays, and even if the writing is wonderful, it’s not often that it makes it to screen in a manner that both preserves as well as transcends this writing (one example that jumps instantly to mind is Kamal Hassan’s screenplay for Thevar Magan, which became Virasat) – and that’s why I never usually come down really hard on a film unless it’s completely useless. It’s easy to make me happy, as long as there’s a sense of some work having gone into a film. It’s important for me to walk away with the impression that something wasn’t tossed contemptuously in my face, that some effort was made to respect the time I’m investing in the film. After that, whether the film actually works or not, it’s all up to the movie gods. But… having underlined my basic movie-watching thumb rule, why do some films – films that have clearly had work go into them, films that invite at least respect if not wholehearted admiration – provoke me to aim their way a defiantly raised finger? That session of therapy, dear reader, will be conducted next week.
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“…What I enjoyed about the way this development is brought across is the fact that the film anticipates it: (a”
yeah, so she ends up without a assistant just when she has a person who she needs to humiliate is met again
Yeah, right, this is not screenplay of convenience. Yeah, right, s of c is when no such miraculous perfect timing happens for the assistant firing
I am astounded at your tendency to see virtues in vices once you buyin the basic premise. I mean, you buy the premise thats fine. Thats individual taste but how can you eloquently try to pass off something as exactly what it is not, and whats more is clearly an example of a generic concept that you dislike?
Hi Baradwaj,
I have often read that Mani Ratnam is a great director but ‘not-so-great’ writer and that he spoils it by writing his own story and screenplay. If it’s not too much of a trouble, wondering if you can give me your take on that.
raj: As usual, let’s agree to disagree.
Raj Balakrishnan: I don’t think MR is a bad writer at all. I just think he’s a far better filmmaker, who’s more comfortable with images rather than words. The thing is, if you’re not a “writer” writer, an element of sameness creeps into the way you handle characters and dialogues and scenes (especially in the case of commercial cinema, which mandates a set of must-haves in each movie). And when you top that with a very distinctly identifiable visual style, there’s some deja vu.
Baradwaj,
Thanks for the comments.
“It’s easy to make me happy, as long as there’s a sense of some work having gone into a film. It’s important for me to walk away with the impression that something wasn’t tossed contemptuously in my face, that some effort was made to respect the time I’m investing in the film. After that, whether the film actually works or not, it’s all up to the movie gods.”
I’m a big movie buff and that’s also my only expectation while watching a movie. I love Bechana….but the ending just ruined the movie for me. I mean they just murdered the character of Deepika……I was like WTF how can a smart and intelligent woman like her could be made out to be so dumb who’d write a letter to a guy for 6 months without waiting a reply. That’s why I loved Rock On……..all the characters were so satisfying. Simply loved Arjun Rampal’s wife character.
Amit Goyal: Well, I didn’t care for the ending either, but it didn’t “ruin” the film for me. Silly endings are par for the course in light romances, whether Bollywood or Hollywood. Of course, it would be nice if the effort that went into the rest of the film went into wrapping it up as well, but I’d have been more upset had it been a serious drama.
“It’s easy to make me happy, as long as there’s a sense of some work having gone into a film” - I have a similar personal opinion on reviewing. A movie can save itself in my eyes with just 2 or 3 scenes that seem to suggest some novelty of thought. For example Arai-En-305il Kadavul was exonerated purely by Rajesh’s scenes with Prakash Raj.
While I disagree with BeH being an example of non-contrivance, JTYJN I agree is well written, purely from the standpoint of having enough characters that I wasn’t really expending energy thinking about Jai’s dreams during the movie.
BR..Am eagerly looking forward to next week to find out. Curious to know about Anbe Sivam and Dasavataharam..you know
As far as Bipasha firing her secretary, it also establishes the fact that she has become someone who is arrogant because she does not want to get hurt again. And she pardons Raj because she wants to move on..some thinking is definitely there Raj..have a heart.
Compare it with Singh is Kinng which is truly a screenplay of convenience.
Mani also understands the importance of surprising his audience. In Guru when the titles unfold in the middle of the song, it was definitely a surprise.
The movie opens with Guru saying ‘ Sapne Math dekho….and looks back into the camera and smiles..the ironical smile of a winner. At the end the same scene is used when Guru rehearses for the AGM of Shakthi Corporation and he looks back and smiles at his family!! This is clever writing man..
Deepauk M: I think I’d look for more then 2-3 scenes, but yeah, problematic films can often redeem themselves with “some novelty of thought.” Like, Pirivom Sandhippom this year. Seen that?
Anand: Don’t hold your breath is all I’ll say
And yeah, I too saw that scene the way you did. The actual “firing” is more about establishing her character as a control-freak bitch, so you don’t really expect the firing aspect to create a vacuum and so on. You just think the asst. has been fired, Bipasha is now a scary bitch, end of story. So when Ranbir lands up and that issue is still hanging in the air, it’s… nice.
actually, whats this about Ranbir being a superstar in making and a fine actor. Is he any better than Tarun who similarly exploded on to Telugu screen with similar credentials and competence?
Apaprently not going by what I can see of him. Yet all this hype about what a chip off the fine old block(which is Rishi Kapoor, LOL. RIshi Kapoor?Fine actor? What kind of twisted world is Bollywood?) etc.?
Is therey any wonder Hindi Fillum World nauesates people like me?
Yes, I did enjoy Pirivom Sandhippom. I am one of those people that doesnt mind Cheran acting - as long as he doesnt sport a coif like the one in Mayakkannadi. The character conceits for Sala and Natesan were very well defined - I liked how the initial attractions between the characters came from very different places. Karu Palaniappan’s attention to the details of a Nagarathar Kalyanam was also enjoyable (one of my college buddies even used screenshots of some scenes on his wedding website as an example of the events that would be conducted at his wedding). The change of pace in the movie was noticeable after the couple moved, even though it wasnt that fast paced to begin with (like Venkatesh Prasad bowling that off-cutter), but Jayaram’s character stuck out like a sore thumb in a sea of understatement. The end could have been a little less dramatic. You could almost feel the writer (also Karu I believe) trying to magnify situations to get his point across. In retrospect though I’m not sure how it could be retooled. Vidyasagar should get a kudos for the music and somewhat sparse use of BGM in the second half. I especially like Kandaen Kandaen and the female rendition (Swetha?). I’ve been trying to figure out for a loong time if the genesis was from Arunachala Kavirayar’s Kandein in the Rama Nataka Kirthanams, or if I am hearing the ragam itself wrong. Medhuva Medhuva (Vakulabharanam?) and Iru Vizhiyo have also been stuck on repeat mode in the IPOD.
Actually, Heroine’s arrrogance being established by her firing a minion - that is clever writing? Sorry, I first saw that in a B&W MGR movie. And it is 20 years since that man died, 30 years since he stopped starring in movies, nearly 40 years since he acted in a B&W movie.
And I have seen several reprises of that in movies of heroes ranging from Jaishankar, Sobhan Babu, Krishna to Junior NTR, Shiva Rajkumar and Vijay Joseph.
If that is clever writing, then I am the King of England
raj: There we go again, trying to prove a point through snatches of comment-space. That’s not what I meant at all, because if that’s the criterion for clever writing, let’s not forget it was established *centuries* ago, with The Taming of the Shrew. Where’s a B/W MGR movie in relation to that?
But I’m curious: Have you seen the film? You didn’t like it at all?
There are two types of films, films which touch your heart and films which surprise your brain..like a typical Bollywoodian quote ” Dil Se Vs Dhimaag Se”
Onky a few films manage to do both..in the last year or so, I can remember Munnabhai, TZP..Anyone wish to add?
BR, that might be but I am just recounting where I saw it first. I read Shakespeare much later than I started seeing MGR movies:-). MUCH later. Oh yeah, perhaps as someone who got introduced to movies throu Rajnikanth and MGR, and Amitabh Bachchan(I have seen more of his 80′ stuff than Rajni and Kamal put together), I should shut my mouth when big thalais like you are discussing movies :-). But what the heck, this is a blog and you dont delete my comments:-)
No, I havent seen the movie. I am just reviewing your review
:-).Perhaps, you are, as you mention yourself, easily pleased. Perhaps, something about Hindi just riles me.
Anand, how about dasavatharam ?:-)
Anand: Guna? Mahanadhi? Thevar Magan? I know you said “last year,” but these are evergreen, right?
raj: Appa. Pazham vittaachu. Or should we be more mature and say vellai kodi kaattiyaachu?
Anand: What about RDB? Omkara? Chak De? Khosla Ka Ghosla? Dor?
Raj…Good one on Dasa :-). I’ll remember
But honestly, Dasa is a Dhimaag Se film. It did not touch anyone’s heart(at least not mine)…but I was amazed at the writing.
BR..Nayakan, Roja, Mouna Ragam, Hey Ram, Sethu, Pithamagan, Paruthi Veeran, Jab We Met, Satya, Lagaan, Chanakyan, Drohkaal…
Most of Bharathiraja’s initial films will qualify.
But the best evergreen in this category would be Mahdendran’s classics…Mullum Malarum, Udhiri Pookal.
Just think about it…Between a Dil Se film and a Dhimaag Se film, the latter has a longer shelf life!!
A “Qualifying for both” film just happens..I think even the filmmaker realizes it onle after the film releases and creates an impact.
Aditya Pant: Yes Indeed..and add Iqbal to the list.
Anand: ….and a ‘dil se’ film has a more instantaneous appeal.
this ‘dil se’ and ‘dimagh se’ debate makes me wonder if Mani Rathnam’s Dil Se was actually a ‘dimagh se’ film
Anand, i was kidding.Dasa was just about watchable - mind, not the crap that BR and others claim(esp compared to the corresponding Bolly crap) it is but still a mediocre one.
BR, no commitments:-). When the mood strikes us, we will pick up the spear again
aditya: good one there
raj: let me just tell you that I think right now Bollywood is far better in most aspects of filmmaking than Kollywood. I’m not getting into the WHY (i.e. more funds, lack of multiplex culture, or whatever). I understand these limitations.
But I cannot accept films because of this reason — they also need to appeal to my sensibilities. And Bollywood does that to an extent that Kollywood doesn’t. (even if it’s only “to an extent,” it’s still an “extent,” right?)
We have great ideators in Kollywood — but when it comes to translating that idea into a screenplay and then mounting it visually, Kollywood directors (except for the usual suspects) just aren’t up to mark, and the average Bollywood hack is far better than the average Kollywood hack.
Why is this, I wonder? Because they watch more foreign films and therefore come automatically armed with knowledge about pacing and staging and so on, while our directors are inbred on our on past and therefore are stuck in a rut?
And when I see a film like Rock On, I wonder, why aren’t there breakout performers like Shahana Goswami here? Surely there are talented girls who speak Tamil and can act the pants off their co-stars? But where are these people and why don’t we see them in our films? Okay, so your heroine is dictated by “mass” economics, but surely there can be supporting parts that you can cast creatively in?
And why do the best cameraman and so on migrate? Because the opportunity for good work is there. Sure, the first half of this year was really crappy in Bollywood, but look at the balance July and August alone have brought.
So if you continue to read this blog, you’re going to have to live with this fact. Of course you may choose to disagree, as I’m SURE you will.
Also, when I say the Khan brothers were funny in JTYJN, it means they were funny in that surreal crackpot role. It’s not that I’m making them out to be Brando. And when I say Bachna has nice writing, it means for a romantic trife — given the predictable elements - there are nice things. It doesn’t mean this film is Citizen Kane.
So pick up the spear or whatever — but this is honestly what I feel. What we need in Kollywood isn’t one Bala movie every three years, but a more modest scale of moviemaking achievement, where there are more movies with smaller ambitions but, within those ambits, are nicely done. Like rom-coms. Like thrillers. Like little dramas.
I know this isn’t likely to happen because of the realities I mentioned earlier. But when a Love Story 2050 looks far superior to Dasa, despite being mounted on a lesser budget, you know something isn’t quite right in the kingdom of Denmark.
You may begin to blaze away now
BR, I am in mellow mood this week so no spear:-)
There is not a lot that I refute from what you say.
This, I disagree - “and the average Bollywood hack is far better than the average Kollywood hack”
I’d replace “better than” with “same as”.
If you are talking of a movie like Omkara, then, well, there is no argument really. The best in Bollywood is better than the best in Tamil. When I say that Iam thinking of Vishal Baradwaj(whats with that name, eh?signifies quality?) even Ashutosh Gowariker( I really liked Swades even better than Lagaan) but not Abbas Tierwala or even Aamir Khan. Again when you do say big things about Ranbir Kapoor, then well, that riles. That positively riles. To me, Tarun, Sudeep, Uday Kiran, Jayam Ravi…that sequence simply leads to Ranbir Kapoor. Thats not a compliment. So, yes, if you say he is competent thats fine. He perhaps is. But anything more than that is bad appraisal of his talents. Even submitting to teh subjectiveness of taste, this is perplexing. Rishi Kapoor and his family are perhaps the most over-rated(in comparison to the real talent they have) family in the history of hindi cinema.
Saying that, I do think we are seeing a change in the fortunes now. What with Tamil Cinema really breaking through with the likes of Subramanyapuram(though I didnt think much of it). I hear good words on Chennai-28 guy’s new film, too. While Farhan Akthar signs a 8 film deal with a corporate, and immediately makes himself a hero, his father’s ex-brother-in-law, his mom and his sister as directors:-). Meanwhile Abbas Tierwala makes his wife a heroine. I think that nepotism is an indication of where Hindi movies are going in the next few years. This nepotism, and the other sort of nepotism between SRK, Johars, Chopras and Farah Khans will eventually bring down Bollywood from its current heights.
BTW, saw Rock on. Couldnt really see its merits, sorry. I happened to catch Aryan done by the same director on TV, recently. I feel he has just rehashed that one. Maybe it is a South Bombay sensibility that I cant ‘get’. I just dont feel it. I could ‘get’ and ‘feel’ as diverse stuff as Chennai-28, Paruthiveeran, Anand(Telugu), Manichitrathazhu, Omkara etc. But somehow the South Bombayish stuff like DCH, I dont get. So, maybe, thats where I dislike these ones.
Again, one cant disagree with your anguish on Tamil filmdom being what it is. But the point on Love Story that you made - well, I’d like to think that there is no comparison between it and Dasa. The right comparison is Sivaji, another mindless crap just as LS 2050. I think you would agree tht they both looked lavish on screen for the money they spent. Dasa on the other hand had too many threads to finance even with the 60 crs they had. It went wrong, sure but I’d take it any day over LS 2050 and Shivaji and OSO. Production values substituting for script is criminal. Vice versa is tragic, but atleast in my books, that is more forgiveable.
Saying that, I would refer you to Sekhar Kammula’s telugu movies. Some of them atleast. At the least, you’d appreciate his sensibility, I feel.
BR: “but look at the balance July and August alone have brought”
Oh yes, the first half only had Mithya, Aamir, and (even if I’m in a minority) JA, while July and August alone have 4 above average films. And September starts with A Wednesday and Tahaan, both of which have excellent reports. Will you review them?
Baradwaj,
Absolutely! I completely agree with you that Bollywood is far superior to Kollywood in most aspects of filmmaking. Except for a set of usual suspects from different periods of time, the usual Tamil cinema has mostly been notches below the usual Hindi cinema. Right now, this distinction is greater than ever, and is all the more glaring. Take any of the recent years, I can rattle off the top of my head quite a lot of films that I genuinely liked from Hindi cinema that year; can’t say the same of Tamil films at all. viral vittu eNNidalAm. Like you say, one could cite several reasons to this (much bigger — and also wider — market being one of the most important). I so don’t want to put down Tamil cinema just like that, but Tamil cinema to my mind is clearly not anywhere close to being as good as Hindi cinema.
Is there anyone in Tamil cinema who could be even remotely seen as an equivalent of someone like Rajat Kapoor? (I’m so glad that ‘Mithya’ has got all the acclaim it could possibly get, but he’s been making wonderful films right from the beginning.) His films are not just generic multiplex films, but oustanding films with a unique artistic signature. To my mind, he’s already a “little” auteur of sorts. Writers like Imtiaz Ali, who, at the surface, simply recycles the same stories with recurring motifs, but adds layers of flesh and blood to his characters that make all the difference? Or, take the loooong line-up of actors who are all such a pleasure to watch.
What one can say in favour of Kollywood is that the average Kollywood film is ostensibly more rooted than the average Bollywood film. While I do appreciate this quality, in most of the films, this rootedness is just there put to little use, and doesn’t have much to “offer” in terms of mise-en-scène. Personally, I don’t care much for even those films that do boast of a remarkable setting but do not have much else to commend. Cases in point are films like Paruthiveeran and Subramaniyapuram. These are ordinary, vacuous films in my books — hack-jobs that regurgitate stock clichés and banal themes, without ever questioning or challenging the audience. In these films, we’re just expected to gaze at some skin-deep characters that rest on broad stereotypes, and regurgitate arbitrary clichés (like saying, “the film explores the fickle-minded nature of those people, the inherent violence in them,” and insist that, “they are like that”) ourselves.
Raj: I might have missed this, but when and where did BR say ‘big’ things abour Ranbir? His BAH review was not exactly complimentary to him. What he said was this:
“He’s an affable enough screen presence, but he works just too damn hard to please us, especially in the lighter scenes.”
Just saw “A Wednesday guys”..will save my comments on BR’s review of the film, but just to preempt
Fantastic…I had a ticket of Saroja for the night show, but decided to skip it because wanted the movie to linger on through the night.
Zero/Rangan/Raj: We cant look at quality films being made in terms of pure numbers. We have to look at it as a percentage of the total number of films made. If that is the comparison statistic i think Thamizh cinema will look a little better, though I am no sure it will still measure up to Indhi Padams.
What seems to have happened is the average newcomer in Bollywood, the ones without Yash Raj backing or big budgets (bcoz lets face it, the current hacks in Bollywood are the people who load money on wafer thin scripts crumbling them in the process), seems to want to work outside the confines of tropes we have to come to associate Indian cinema with. The number of such (ad)venturers in Thamizh cinema seem to be lower. There seem to be some people that are good with either the plot-driven writing alone (Radha Mohan, G.Marimuthu of Kannum Kannum types) but loose a lot in translation and then some people that are comfortable with the visual language and character definition (Ameer) but the plots are usually quite redundant. For example in Paruthiveeran, especially the first half IMO, was almost a commentary on life in-rural-part-of Madurai using Veeran as an instigator for various events. Nothing was hapening to Veeran, events happened because of him. But that is preferable toMozhi on the other hand where you really dont know anything about Prithviraj, except Prakash Raj and he always seem like they are on a first date with the audience (like me! oh please like me! see what a good man I am). I think Ameer’s vision, at least, makes for slightly better cinema. But, oustside of Bala maybe, I am yeat to see a somewhat holistic(thematically and in terms of character definition) presentation. But I think the people like Ameer are definitelycapable of getting there, especially because they have the tougher visual aspects of the medium down. Just need to focus a tad bit more on the writing.
There is no question about it..surely Bollywood is better. Open the newspaper and see the Tamil film ads, most heroes appear in vests including Sakthi(heard about him)?? You get rehashed cop stories like Satyam where the hero looks at the camera and talks for 10 minutes.
Like BR said only the usual suspects save the day. And the exceptions are few and far between.
I have given up hope on Tamil films.
Zero..Well said!! But PV had far more layers…but I know many people for whom the movie didn’t work..I thought it was a gem.
And the other irritating thing in Tamil filmdom is the ” you scratch my back - i’ll scratch yours” phenomenon amongst filmmakers/artists..you see any promotional interview..a big name comes and praises a mediocre movie/performance.
Many efforts like Autograph, Veyil, Kadhal, Dhavamai Dhavamirundhu are simply overrated.
raj: The point on Love story vs Dasa was strictly on a visual level. Both were films that needed a lot of visual effects and gimmickry, and yet the difference in quality was startling. That’s what I meant — not the writing or anything. Even Sivaji looked fantastic - so what went wrong with dasa? I can understand if they didn’t have the money, but… And it’s my fervent feeling that with such ambitious ventures, do it right or don’t do it.
Aditya: Yes, both. Couldn’t catch Hijack though
Zero: I don’t know if I’d make such a sweeping statement. There was always some sort of a parallel between the two industries. In the 60s, both did weepies and fluffy romances. In the 70s, a bit of social consciousness crept in (to a lesser extent in Tamil, but still). And later, you could say the art film movement in BW found a parallel (somewhat) with Mahendran, Rudraiah etc. (Again, not comparing volumes, just the *types* of films).
But once the “hero” trend got established here, there’s been a marked difference between the two industries. Even now, when I see something so original, so delightful, and so “Tamil” in its sensibilities like Ch-28 or Oram Po, I wonder why, despite the (relative) success of these films, we’re still stuck with superhero films.
Another thing: everyone in KW wants to make superhits, whereas BW freshers are content with niche hits (say, Mumbai and Pune only). But no one here wants to make a 2 cr. film for Chennai and Cbe auds, say. Inga mattum enna Peter pasangalukku panjamaa?
But I agree about the actors bit. I think there’s a lot of theatre actors who get into films there and do great work. Plus I think the training ground is better. Out here, you really can’t find “actors” as such (of course, I’m leaving Kamal and so on out of this).
Deepauk M: But even the Yash Raj films are relatively out of the box, is what I’m saying. Like Bachna Ae haseeno… Can you find a young hero here willing to be humiliated by the heroine, forget being spat upon like Kamal in Mahanadhi? That’s also a part of the problem — BW has gotten rid of “image” casting. See, the crap like Singh is Kinng apart, the really big prodn. houses in BW do take creative risks. But of course, the multiplex culture helps, and we don’t have it.
I’m just saying, forget Manorama Six Feet Under or Mithya or Ek Chalis Ki Last Local or No Smoking - those are ULTRA niche films. I don’t see even a lightweight Bachna being a possibility here, and that’s the tragedy.
About your examples of Radha Mohan and so on, it’s the case of a good writer not necessarily being a good director. Have you seen Velli Thirai? If that’s “plot,” I’d rather take the atmospherics of Ameer, which at least give me the satisfaction of watching someone who KNOWS what he’s doing.
And uh oh, you didn’t care for Mozhi?
Anand: You didn’t care for Kadhal, TT? Man oh man
Anand: I understand how every film in your overrated list could be misconstrued that way, but Kaadhal I will strictly disagree with you. If anything it deserves far more accolades than anything Paruthiveeran or Raam has won.
Rangan: I dont think having Ranbir slapped by the heroine is a “creative” risk. It may be a “commercial” risk - but they know its now commercially viable to be all womens libby (not to be confused with grand jury perjurer “Scooter” Libby). I’d put BeH on the level of Unnaale Unnaale. The only redeeming aspect of BeH, for me, was Yash Raj’s confession of guilt. A confession that they have spawned, in some circles, an entire generation of women looking for their “Raj” and they are sorry for having their “aasai kaatti mosam pannum” characterisations. Some large BW production houses, Yash Raj and KJ’s Dharma in particular, are the modern environmentally unfriendly equivalent of Midas - everything they touch is inescapably plastic. But if we are justifying that as escapist fantasy, then we should really hold Kuruvi up to the same standard and pardon that kind of filmmaking. And just the thought is physically revolting. Even though Mithya got made, why does Laaga Chunari Mein whatever get made?
On the actors, I agree with you and Zero, the last real ACTOR discovered was probably Pasupathy as opposed to the proliferation seen in Hindi Cinema.
I remember watching Mozhi and thinking “My folks will like this”. Not “I like this”. The fact that it got so much press for being an “artistic” film, despite deriving humor from scenes like Brahmanandam seeing Prakash Raj naked, irked me even more. And then I realised for a public raised on hero-centric masala, of course Mozhi would look like a masterpiece. Yaaro oru arivaali sonna maathiri:
“75 varushama athiradi fight-um, attagaasamaana song-um thaan cinema-nu nenaicha payala, thideernu Kurosawa pathi pesalaam-va na, Avan eppidi varuvaan? Yaaraachum kootikittu varanum. Aaana Antha paya methuvaathaan varuvaan methuvaathaan varuvaan.”
The success Ch-28 was a few steps in the right direction, as are the few honest efforts by Bala, Ameer, Balaji Sakthivel and Cheran (to a more lesser extent).
“The success Ch-28 was a few steps in the right direction, as are the few honest efforts by Bala, Ameer, Balaji Sakthivel and Cheran (to a lesser extent).” - Grammatical errors!
Vellithirai - I refused to watch because, I liked Udayanaanu Thaaram purely for the satire on the Malayalam film industry. Sreenivasan did not even spare his co-star Lal. But the movie, in totality, was nowhere near Sreenivasan’s best work. I had a feeling that in thamizh they would be forced to cut out any self-reflective satire, and when initial reports confirmed the same I just decided to give it a pass.
“I don’t know if I’d make such a sweeping statement. There was always some sort of a parallel between the two industries. In the 60s, both did weepies and fluffy romances. In the 70s, a bit of social consciousness crept in (to a lesser extent in Tamil, but still). And later, you could say the art film movement in BW found a parallel (somewhat) with Mahendran, Rudraiah etc. (Again, not comparing volumes, just the *types* of films).”
Baradwaj,
Oh, I do agree with you. And, well, I didn’t intend to make a sweeping statement at first place. Of course, there’s always been a sort of parallel between the two. My point is precisely that it has mostly been “to a lesser extent” in Tamil. By and large, I do feel Hindi cinema has been making better films even when making the same type of films. And, after all, volume too matters, does it not? Rudraiah made two films. ‘avaL appadith thAn’ is a masterpiece to my mind, but was he able to sustain and make more films? On the other hand, Hindi cinema had quite a bunch of middle-road/art-house filmmakers around the same time who could sustain making such films. Did Tamil cinema have someone like Basu Chatterjee or a Sai Paranjpe? That is to say, even when both these film industries were making the same type of films, they were making it better in Hindi cinema.
And, of course, like you, I’m leaving out usual suspects like Kamal, Mani, Mahendran, Balu Mahendra et al. How many films have they all made put together, anyway?
“Even now, when I see something so original, so delightful, and so “Tamil” in its sensibilities like Ch-28 or Oram Po, I wonder why, despite the (relative) success of these films, we’re still stuck with superhero films.”
That’s exactly how I feel too. These are two films that are not “artsy types,” very “Tamil” in their sensibilities, original and entertaining, and yet their successes haven’t had as much an influence as the films that showcase hollow machismo and cheerful posturing. How else could one explain films that so want to be off the beaten track, yet can’t think outside hackneyed and regressive themes and end up romanticising adolescent ‘louu’, ‘oruththanukku oruththi’ chastity et al.?
“That’s also a part of the problem — BW has gotten rid of “image” casting” - Not true. I remember Morgan Freeman, widely accepted as a great actor, mentioning his perceived gravitas being the reason for being offered roles such as president and, well, God.
Its the same affliction that AB has - not surprisingly they picked him to play God in the remake. He comes on screen blares in baritone and everyone is sufficiently awed. Even in roles where he has to break down and cry, for example, I’m only affected because its AB, not in the way I would be affected by my fellow man’s tears (Krishnaswamy or Nallasivam) - which is what I would feel if he was a truly great actor.
What I think is really the issue is “image” writing. They write and then cast actors as opposed to writing for actors which is the real bane of Kollywood. When you write characters that do away with image you’ve done away with the image casting automatically.
OK-I’ll stop-Illenaa “thou doth protest too much” aayidum.
Deepauk,
I see what you mean when you say “Ameer’s vision, at least, makes for slightly better cinema,” and it’d be certainly interesting to see Ameer eventually “getting there.” But, as of now, I’ve to say I don’t share the same level of enthusiasm. All the time, Bala and Ameer are bracketed together in the same line as two promising filmmakers of this generation. And, that makes me cringe to no end (and I end up writing comments like this one!). These two filmmakers receiving the same kind of critical reception just because they both stay away from regular masala fare — it couldn’t get worse than that. That’s probably why I get all worked up when talking about films that are off the beaten track at the surface, but thematically bankrupt nevertheless.
In my view, Bala is heads and shoulders above any other Tamil filmmaker of this generation. Just for the sheer artistic ambition that overarches his films whatever be their shortcomings, he’s way above the rest.
Anand,
IMO, it’s hard to overrate a film like ‘Kaadhal’. It’s probably the film of this decade for me. Not because it is “flawless,” but because, as a whole film, it works at so many levels, and truly transcends all its shortcomings. Just for instance, consider the manner in which the film examines and challenges the various cliches associated with any elopement story by putting in all the standard elements in its narrative. A masterwork that Balaji Sakthivel might never live up to.
Deepauk M: “I dont think having Ranbir slapped by the heroine is a “creative” risk.” I just mean that TYPE of frothy young romantic movie. I used Bachna as an example because it’s a recent movie, at the top of my mind, but you could take anything else — say, Jab We Met. It’s the FEEL of the film I was getting at. I believe they’re making Jab We Met in Tamil. I hope that’s a start…
And that’s a fantastic quote (I remember reading it someplace. Where?) — but it also has the implicit assumption that there’s a Kuruvi/Sivaji or a Kurosawa and nothing in between. That’s a fallacy because it doesn’t address the middle-of-the-road “creative little film” like Ch-28 or Oram Po. Like I said, my grouse is not that Tamil cinema isn’t making No Smoking. The point is that it isn’t making more Ch-28’s and Oram Po’s.
And I agree about image casting vs. image writing. That’s what I meant. Typecasting exists the world over, as you pointed out
“And that’s a fantastic quote (I remember reading it someplace. Where?)” - Ahem … That was just me reworking the dialog from the “Ithellaam perumaya? Ovvruthanoda kadamai” sequence from Thevar Magan -
Peria Thevar - “2000 varushamaa Veeecharuvaavayum Velkambayum thookittu Vetrivel Veeravelnu alainja payala thideernu vignaanam pesa vaadaa eppidi varuvaan? Neethaan padichavanaache, kottikittuvaa. Avana ange kootikittu vaa. Aana antha paya methuvaathein varuvaan methuvaathein varuvaan.”
Sakthi - “Embuttu methuvayya athukulla naan sethu poyiduven.”
Peria Thevar - “Po Sethu Po” etc….
I’ll stop in the interest of not taking up too much space
. So the arivaali is of course Kamal.
“Rangan: I dont think having Ranbir slapped by the heroine is a “creative” risk. It may be a “commercial” risk - but they know its now commercially viable to be all womens libby (not to be confused with grand jury perjurer “Scooter” Libby). I’d put BeH on the level of Unnaale Unnaale. The only redeeming aspect of BeH, for me, was Yash Raj’s confession of guilt. A confession that they have spawned, in some circles, an entire generation of women looking for their “Raj” and they are sorry for having their “aasai kaatti mosam pannum” characterisations. Some large BW production houses, Yash Raj and KJ’s Dharma in particular, are the modern environmentally unfriendly equivalent of Midas - everything they touch is inescapably plastic. But if we are justifying that as escapist fantasy, then we should really hold Kuruvi up to the same standard and pardon that kind of filmmaking. And just the thought is physically revolting. Even though Mithya got made, why does Laaga Chunari Mein whatever get made?
”
Deepak, idhai thaan naan unsuccesful-a articulate pannikittu irukkaen ivlo naala.
BeH, Unnale Unnale, JTYJN, Niram allm ore kuttaila oorina mattai dhaan. Depending on your background(Besant nagar, Juhu, Kannur) you’ll like one more than the other for the ‘rooted’ characters. Idhai Vechu Hindi cinema is above-nu sonna dhaan aeriyudhu.
Hindi cinema is currently above Tamil and even perhaps Malayalam(which is a bigger tragedy) but not because of the ‘average’ efforts like BeH, JTYJN etc(there are equivalents in tamil and Mallu and Telugu which appeal to youngsters rooted in those ‘college cultures’(and the BR equivalents) and having characters that probably remind those people of real people they have seen). Let’s take Classmates, a movie that made such a splash in Mallu circles - it doesnt do much for me. This is the JTYJN equivalent in Mallu for me. So, to talk as if JTYJN proves why Hindi has such ‘nuanced’ films when you can easily talk about other movies which undisputably prove that. JTYJN - ok average movie which has some tropes different from movies of that type. Every language I guess will have such stuff, only the Tamil BeH wouldnt be the same as the Hindi BeH. Hell, thats why movies like Mozhi become hit. Thats all. Lets not talk as if Hindi has this wonderful JTYJN type movies which are a cut above similar stuff in other languages. There are. Just as I canntot relate to JTYJN , you will not relate to similar stuff in other languages that I can relate to. That doesnt mean JTYJN/BeH is superior to that stuff.
In the 80’s, Hindi impose panna koodadhunu sonna, Tamil fanatic-nu peru varum. Andha maadhiri irukku inga. Hindi kuppai-ya kuppainu sonna, Tamil padathukku vakkalathu vaangarennu solraanga.
Frothy young romantic movie is a Hindi staple. If petty gangster movie is a tamil staple, that is the hindi equivalent. Idhu tamizh-la illainu azhudha eppadi.
This is not about the non-existent quality of tamil cinema but the over-hyped quality of bollywood cinema. You can very well say Tamil cinema is low quality these days. Just dont hype up bollywood because except for the real gems like omkara, the other ones, with a hint of ‘real’ characters doenst make ‘good cinema’. That still means average cinema - therefore just comparing with tamil and collar-a thooki vittufying doesnt mean much to me.
Baradwaj,
Deepauk’s “quote” is a spin-off of one of Periya Thevar’s lines in Thevar Magan.
BR / Deepauk..I did not say that I did not care for these films..these are definitely above average films. But look how tamil film industry perceives these films..they are perceived to be ‘Cult Classics’. They are percceived to be masterpieces..It is precisely because the bar is so low. Yes, I enjoyed watching these films, they were engrossing and they did not test my intelligence but thats about it..They were not masterpieces. Since the envelope is very near, it is easier to push it..thats it. If I sound too hard, I am sorry..I have just been out of Saroja and am extremely disappointed and angry.
Zero: Thanks. Yes, I see what you were saying now. About why Oram Po and so on haven’t left a mark, could it also be that we don’t have producers here like UTV, for example? Where a Ronnie Screwvala would be more hands on with shaping the film (in terms fo making sure the right people are hired and so on), the producers here are merely the “money bags,” and hence look for assurance by means of “heroism” and “item songs” and so on. Could that be a reason?
About “A masterwork that Balaji Sakthivel might never live up to,” I was shocked to see Kalloori. I mean, what happened?
Deepauk M: Ha, ha… now i see why it’s familiar. But seriously, I thought you’d taken this from a Kalki interview by Bharatiraja, where he’d gone ballistic about tamil cinema. (This was about a year ago.)
raj: But if you understand that our sensibilities are different and so on (as you’ve so eloquently laid out), what is the need to feel “Idhai Vechu Hindi cinema is above-nu sonna dhaan aeriyudhu?” I mean, if you think JTYJN is “kuppai” and I think it’s a refreshing rom-com, why should that cause such a “aeriyudhu” reaction in you? It’s just a movie, not something that’s going to bring about world peace
Anand: But dude, what really is a masterpiece, then? One man’s great movie is another person’s piece of crap. no? Oh, and you didn’t like Saroja? I’ve heard nothing but good things about it. Too bad I won’t be able to watch the latest bunch of Tamil films for at least a couple of weeks (catch-up list includes Dhaam Dhoom, Jeyam Kondaan, Saroja).
I have just been out of Saroja and am extremely disappointed and angry.
Deepauk: Wow..what lines man..Kamal has written some of the best dialogues in the last 10 years. Another gem from Thevar Magan… “Ayyo…Naan kudutha paalellam rathama odudhey”..One from Virumandi…” Manushan Sandhoshama irukayile adhai Unar-radhu illa” and ” Mannika therinjavan Manushan..Mannipu kekka therinjavan maamanushan” Hey Ram: Gandhi saying: ” I know little bit of Tamil - Nethikku means tomorrow?” and the reply comes ” No..Bapuji..Nethikku means yesterday” to which Gandhi laughs” Oh..my critics are right..I am stuck with yesterday!!”
BR: To me, I should feel the same way about the fil even after 5 years, for it to qualify as a masterpiece. Therefore, while Hey Ram is a masterpiece, Autograph and Kadhal are not. While MMKR is a masterpiece, Avvai Shanmughi is not. While Roja is a masterpiece, Kannathil Muthamittal is not. But I agree with you..one man’s masterpiece could be another man’s crap..Having said that I have nothing against Autograph, Kadhal etc..I enjoyed these films. But I get irritated by people from film industry proejcting these as masterpieces after 2-3 weeks of release.
BR..Watch Saroja..then we’ll discuss
BR: Appadi Illai. When you have to talk about hero getting slapped by heroine as a ‘creative risk’, I feel that you are taking the ‘Hindi movies today are more liberated and are more creative’, a bit too far. Enga thalaivar Captain Vijayakanth has done that in the 80’s I think. Or atleast, he has deigned to catch heroine’s puke in his cupped hands. Idhellam oru vishayame illai.
Let’s talk about the real difference Hindi movies are making now - the Vishal Bharadwaj type, the UTV type as you mentioned,even Aamir Khan but not the YashRaj and Karan Johar types. Adhellam summa gimmick types dhaan. In fact, I can argue that precisely getting the hero slapped by the heroine is what would work in today’s Mumbai and North India. Andha commercial point-ai pidichadhukiku, Chopravukku oru kudos but calling that more artistic than tamil movies is unwarranted. Rendavadhu, Imran Khan was hailed as the next big thing after I dotn remember what. Idhellam thevaiya? Oru saadharana pop-corn flick-la pop-corn role-la decent-a debut panninavan next sueprstar illai next Nasseeruddin Shah illaina next Aamir khan? Lets leave such hyping to sify.com, redifff.com, SCREEN magazine and StarDust.
Appuram, tamizhla Jab we met illaina enna kudi muzhugi pochu?
Ippadiyellam compare pannina, appo then we would have to question why Bollywood doesnt make movies like Paruthiveeran or Kaadhal. Oru Scooter mechanic hero-va kaamikka mudiyuma ange? Even in the UTV movies? BTW, I am not a fan of Kaadhal. Andha climax itself takes a lot away from it. Indha madurai based movies are a bane for tamil filmdom. That is why even Karuppasamy Kuthagaidhaarar is considered a ‘different’, ‘realistic’ movie. Just because characters casually spew a approximate madurai dialect.
Zero thambi, ennappa Tamil cinema history-ai-ye ippadi oru line la always less than hindi cinemanu solliputta.
Ange irukkaradhu inge illaina, inge irukkaradhu ange illaipa.
70 varushathula, 16 vayadhinilae maadhiri oru true, rural padam eduthaingalapa avainga? Think about it? 80 years since Hindi cinema started still they dont have an authentic rural film like 16 V. They are still waiting for their bharthiraja. And if you talk of volumes, andha authentic rural category-la, Hidni deposit-izhandhufying.
Ippadi ellam, inge irukkaradhu ange illainu aarambicha, onnum prove panna mudiyadhu.
Deepak, your thumb rule rather works for me.That’s why Thenali, PKS et al dont match up to MMKR.Panchathanthiram comes close but no cigar.
Deepauk/Raj,
I see what you mean. But, I’m hardly including Yash Raj films. (I didn’t think much of ‘Bachna Ae Haseeno’ though I appreciated the point Deepauk has made about the film.) Outside “the YashRaj and Karan Johar types,” there are a lot of interesting films that come up every now and then. At least, to me, it seems much more than the number of good films I get to see in Tamil. And, I’m so not just including the so-called multiplex films when I say this.
And, Raj aNNE, I didn’t intend to make a one-line sweeping statement on Tamil cinema. And, I didn’t say, “always less than.”
So, cut me some slack there. But, at the end of the day, when I look back, Hindi cinema seems to have offered notably better films than Tamil cinema at various periods of time.
And, one more thing. I surely agree with you about the rootedness of Hindi cinema vis-a-vis Tamil cinema. I mentioned that point in my first comment itself so as to bring in that crucial point as well. It’s fair to say that no one in Hindi cinema met with so much success as Bharathiraja in making real rural films, but it can’t be denied that they did make films set in rural milieu. Benegal? His Ankur came in 1974. I know, I know, it’s art-house cinema, but still, the whole boundary between art-house and commercial cinema is not strict. At the end of the day, the parallel movement by itself was so strong that it “isolated” itself as an island of sorts. Which is why everyone started looking at it as a different ballgame altogether at first place. In Tamil cinema, we didn’t even bother to mark such boundaries (which is actually a good thing).
Of course, there are some glorious patches for Tamil cinema when some breakthrough stylists arrived on the Tamil film scene and Hindi cinema was caught in a rut. But, those are the ones I’ve excluded as “usual suspects.” May be, therein lies the debate.
And, by the way, I mean proper mainstream Hindi cinema when I wrote, “Hindi cinema was caught in a rut.” Otherwise, again, some of the Hindi parallel filmmakers were clearly forerunners to these breakthrough Tamil filmmakers we’re talking about.
Raj / Zero: Why so much of importance is given to Rural films? I mean what difference does it make to the quality of the film? A film is a film is a film..it can be about anything.
Someone, for argument sake, may go on to say that Tamil films produce the best punch lines for heroes. I think we should just see how many films are interesting without affecting your sensibilities.
Raj:
Before you start firing, let me admit that if one indeeds take only films about rural culture/people, then Tamil films score and score big time. My point is different.
Anand,
No, I don’t mean to emphasize on rural films in essentialist terms at all. I’m just talking about how well the films represent, um, the reality, for lack of a better word. I believe that is Raj’s point too. “Rural” not in terms of genre but in terms of setting. (Actually, to talk about “rural” itself is quite misplaced and restrictive. There are not many films with suburban settings either.) And, here, I’d like to again bring my point about how “this rootedness is just there put to little use, and doesn’t have much to “offer” in terms of mise-en-scène.” Which is why it seems to have become more like a genre (as you seem to bee seeing it).
Zero: No, I have understood what you are trying to say. But my point is, if the setting, charaecters need to be real and believable, then why look at only rural films…How can one say that a 16 Vayadhinile is better than a Mouna Ragam..or a Pauthi veeran is better than Iruvar? It is not important if the film has a rural or an urban setting..it is important if the film does justice to the genre and it is important if the characters are real and believable. For every Udhiripookal, tamil filmdom has also given 100 Cheran Pandians (Same is the case with films on urban background as well - for every Nenjathai Killadhe, we are tortured with 100 April Madhathil). My point is simple - like you said I look at the believability of the setting and the characters and the adherence to the genre, in a good film. A comedy subject can be handled like Sathi Leelavathi also; it can be handled like Biwi No.1 also. A coming of age film can be handled like Jo Jeeta Wohi Sikander also, can be handled like Badri also. I simply prefer the former; be it rural or urban. In that context, Hindi films in the past 5 years are offering more number of films that I like.
Zero: Yes…Rootedness is important; but the general misconception is how well rural films made in Tamil are rooted to our culture, reflect the psyche of people..Take Ch-28, I donot think the representation of Chennai youngsters(I hate the term youth) is any lesser than any other rural film.
“But my point is, if the setting, charaecters need to be real and believable, then why look at only rural films…”
“but the general misconception is how well rural films made in Tamil are rooted to our culture, reflect the psyche of people..Take Ch-28, I donot think the representation of Chennai youngsters(I hate the term youth) is any lesser than any other rural film.”
Anand,
I don’t get what the point of disagreement is. That’s exactly why I said (to debunk that very “general misconception”) that it should not be seen in essentialist terms at all.
“I don’t mean to emphasize on rural films in essentialist terms at all. I’m just talking about how well the films represent, um, the reality, for lack of a better word. I believe that is Raj’s point too.”
Actually, I think of Chennai 600028 and Oram Po as more authentic films than, say, Paruthiveeran. The way I see it, the latter film condescends more than be sensitive to its characters.
By the way, I’ve seen Saroja too. Thought it was a pointless film.
And, Raj’s point is not that Hindi cinema has to “make only films about rural culture/people” for being rooted, but about how “diverse” the world that’s represented in Hindi cinema is, as compared to Tamil cinema.
“Oru Scooter mechanic hero-va kaamikka mudiyuma ange?” That’s the question he asks. (Which is why I talked about the 80s parallel cinema that made a lot of films that were set in authentic rural milieu.)
Raj: OK. Time for me to play devil’s advocate. While I understand and share your contempt for BeH, I will say the JTYJN is multiple steps above Niram, Unnaale Unnaale and the likes simply because it was written by a person who knew he was writing a movie that did not have a story arc too different than those other 2 movies - So he wrote in “fantastic” (and I use this term as derived from fantasy not to indicate goodness) characters - Naseer’s character, Rathna Pathak Shah’s character, Paresh Rawal’s character, Genelia’s brother and the 2 horseback riding cousins (Note that I didn’t like the girlfriend character with the vivid imagination - She is in denial about her parents’ rocky marriage, I thought it was very … obvious) . And every single one of them served a purpose - unlike M.S.Baskar’s professor character who was in Mozhi solely to provide comic relief and re-establish Prithviraj’s goodness of heart (Something we already had enough evidence of - Pothumda saami, Madras-la Mazhai peyyurathe unnaala thaan oththukkurein). The 2 cowboy cousins especially were well integrated into the plot, in fact they put in motion the entire romantic arc of the story. And a lot of this actually hits you only when you get some distance from the movie. I usually take that as an indicator of good writing. Think about Niram and the entire sequence with Kovai Sarala, or Unnaale Unnaale and entire plot points lifted directly from Someone Like you - JTYJN is “a far far better thing than any” (credits: Mr.Sydney Carton) of those movies.
And on Ranbir and Imran, no one - at least no one who matters, is according thespian status are they? If all the media hype is getting to you, then the only thing I can offer in terms of appeasement is “suck it up”. Making boy-men’s boxers restrictive and pubescent panties damp is integral to making bean counters tick and incessant publicity is the best way to make that happen. Its a proven system and the Hindi film industry is learning from the best. There is a reason Jolie or Meagan Fox tops FHM’s hottest list every time. Its called social programming (Not to be confused with Vayalum Vaazhvum).
But I concur on Jab We Met, Atha ippo thamizhla eduthu ennatha kizhikkka poraangannu theriyala. At best we can hope to see another stereotype , like the large-Punjabi-family in the original, exploited.
Anand/Zero/Raj: Regarding the rural, suburban and urban milieus - 16V was good only because a NMEP inspector named Chinnasamy from Allinagaram wrote and directed it. If Venkat Prabhu had made it it may have descended into Aalamaram, Kolambi, Vethalapaakku and 500 rooba praadhu kattanum types. Ch-28 could not have been made by BRaja, only by a person who understands the texture of tennis-ball cricket games in Royapuram or Somasundaram ground or any of the other gully cricketing grounds. The thing with Hindi movies is they have become almost inaccessible to someone who shares the same sensibilities as a Barathiraja. I am not sure if people still board the bus to Bombay and hope to make good when they get there, but if they do it seems like that in the “apun-bhi-istarr-banna-hey-yaar” rat race they purposefully forget where they are from. Which is why the odd movie like Omkara and a performance like Deepak Dobriyal’s are such a breath of fresh air.
Zero: Ameer has gotten better with every film. I really enjoyed Mounam Pesiyathe and recommended it to some people - who promptly proceeded to curse me out because they thought it was like a docu-drama :0 . Raam was an improvement on MP and Paruthiveeran, in parts, was an improvement on Raam. I hope, when he is done with his “Yogic” commitments he will settle down and write something better then PV. Nambanum, Nambikai thaan saar vaazhkkai
.
When I say I find Chennai 600028 and Oram Po as “more authentic” than Paruthiveeran, I mean the characters that inhabit the film. (Reading again, I realise that my comment is misleading.) The way these two films represent the people of their world were more real and believable to me. That’s what I meant to say. (Otherwise, the setting of Paruthiveeran is exceptionally well realised. I’d say the same of Chennai 600028 too, but as for the vivid and splashy Oram Po, that’s not the idea.)
yappa, pottu thakkareengapa ellorum.
Anand, first you. I think Zero covered most of what I would have said anyway. Actually, my point is the same as yours. Naan enna sonnenna, Tamizhla idhu (RomCOM)illai adhu(frothy romance) illa ingaradhu point-e illai. Irukkaradhu kuppaiya irukku adhu dhaan prachnai
So, aaha hindikaaran jab we met edhuttanpa, BeH eduthuttanpa, indha average ellam tamiz avergoda better-a irukku apaadingara POV pathi sonnadhu.
Comparison between averages is pointless. I realise that the best in Hindi today is better than the best elsewhere, mostly. Even Bengal and Kerala have fallen behind.(Pinne Santosh Sivanum, Aparna Sen-um hindila padam edutha vera enna nadakkum)
Aanal, dont raise a toast to average hindi movies because of that. That is my point. I thin I have harped on that enough
Deepak, sari actually I am harsh on JTYJN. I know it. It is a bit like BR’s reaction to Dark Knight. Ellorum konjam over-a praise pandranganu oru feeling adhanala I had a wall erected, like BR puts it, when I saw it. Like you observed, what mood you are in when you watch it also contributes to the evaluation. Ennanna, photo-lerundhu pesara appa maadhiri characters konjam telugula Kota Sreenivasa Rao types panni neraiya paarthadhunala, andha character meleyum oru contempt, even though Naseeruddin Shah did it.
Couldnt buy those ‘fantastic’ stuff. I agree though that a lot of thought has gone into writing - this means I am changing my view on this point after watching it and in retrospect, giving it a chance. Maybe influenced by BR, here.
Mathabadi, I dont deny Zero’s point on Ch 28 vs Paruthiveeran.
Ammeer is over-rated I believe. The guy is sort of a misogynist with outdated notions on ‘karpu’, ‘ponnunna dhavani kattikittu adakka odukkama irukkanum’(this I am gleaning not from his movies but his appearance on certain debates in this context).
Mounam Pesiyadhe - I couldnt just get it. It wasnt even watchable for me. Ram was extremely watchable but a lot of sleight of hand from the director in terms of resolving the knots. Paruthi veeran ofcourse was very well crafted but…he always seems to be having ifs and buts with me.
On second thoughts, if they can do, say, an authentic chetiinadu family, a remake of Jab we met would be welcome.
but if they are planning a ‘orthodox iyer kudumbam’(rather Kollywood’s way-off-the-mark representation of it with maamis alternating between iyer kattu and iyengar kattu every alternate scene; girls unbelievably sticking to dhavani paavadai, and everyone spewing “ava oodhina iva varuva” type 1940’s dialgoues) for the punjabi sikku family, then thanks but no thanks
In the larger context, I dont think it is healthy that guys like Rituparno Sengupta, Aparna Sen, Maniratnam, Nishikant Kamat(though he doesnt belong in that company) primrily make movies in Hindi. Jodhila ellorum kalandhu national identity-la ikkiyama aagaradhu is not good, I feel. The rich cultural diversity we have must be represented by movies in various languages. The various(not regional) languages should have a commercial chance to do that. Ippadi ellarum Hindi jodhila ikkiyam aagaraadhu nalladhe illai. Adhanaala, I agree with BR when he laments the situation of Tamil filmdom and its hero dominated situation…
Zero: “I don’t get what the point of disagreement is.” Even I don’t
We are on the same page.
Deepauk: Slurp..Slurp..Burp.
Awesome Post man. But don’t forget..the same NMEP inspector made Sigappu Rojakkal.
Ont thing though..a film like Mozhi, during the course of its running time, will not make you realize about lack of character arc simply because it was meant only to be a breezy entertainer. Thats what I meant by doing justice to the genre.(Did I say that in this post or some other post??!!)
I would compare JTYJN with a film like Azhagiya Theeye. Though JTYJN was better written, I enjoyed both films equally.